*happy dance*

I’m also hoping that those “dark secrets” mentioned in the spoilers make it easier for Elena to further distance herself from Stefan and his influence.

yeah, like she’s the bogy man!

Well Damon learned a long time ago how to make the best of his undead existence and have fun. He lightens Elena up.

and why are u so angry? :)

I was actually speaking in context of the show.  All four seasons.  At the point that you are talking about she has become Vamplena and has a much different personality than when she was Elena.  I think she has grown quite a bit and is coming to terms with herself.  She should know by now that she can’t have it both ways and hanging on to Stefan as not to loose Damon was just not working with her new found freedom.  Part of that freedom is the right to be with the person you’re in love with.  The rest would in essence become collateral damage in your life.  Her views are now more mature and this is probably why you didn’t see it in the last 3 episodes.

Actuallu I melted when she asked him what that look was for and he couldn’t contain the smile on his face as he tried to pretend he didn’t know what she was talking about.

Damon will open his soul to her.  I hope he waits.  The jury is still out on if she’s really on board.  I just don’t trust Vamplena.

We have a lot of experience with “script twists”.  LOL

 Short day today.  Nice to see I am missed.

Love long comments, and thank you for making feel so welcome.

Not going to convoluted the thread with several topics; like how irritated I am with Caroline and Stefan atm (Actually Pixie quoted me in the most popular post in this section atm, so you know my feelings on that one.)

As for Elena, the girl has serious issues with letting go.  It is completely understandable, but nonetheless annoying.  She held onto Matt too long and Stefan too long.  Further she fights her impulses in favor of her loyalty.  “I’m feelings things I don’t want to feel.”  She said to Stefan not long ago.  No, she would not have told Stefan her feelings.  She’d tell Damon, but not Stefan.  “I didn’t want to hurt you.”  She’d live blithely in Denial Land with Stefan as well; another reason I wanted that toxic relationship ended.  Damon pushes her to see the Facts, another point in his favor. 

I’ll surrender that Elena was on her way out the door with Stefan.  I’m also in the group that believes that she loves Stefan very much, but is “in” love with Damon, and has been for months.  The moment where Elena and Damon solidified their status as friends and allies was back in Season 1, when she swore to Damon that she would help him get Katherine back.  From that point on She’d taken Damon into her life personally, not just as Stefan’s brother.  I’m not going to rehash the whole Series, I’m just saying we are on the same page in this.

The question at large atm is who broke up with who.  I just do not see Elena initiating a break up.  She was not too beat up about it though either. I agree she was probably relieved, as well as nervous.  But she was pretty invested in Stefan, and had already sacrificed Damon’s heart for him (stupid as that “choice” was.).  Yeah, she was grateful when she woke up, and yeah, her feelings got away with her.  That happens alot with them.  The Motel in Heart of Darkness, the front porch of her house in Our Town, The Salvatore House on several occasions, the Murder Party in the Five.  The moment in her bedroom could easily have been another of the growing stack of private intimate moments she let go of her restraint in.  Had anyone gone into the room with them, she’d have retreated. 

It is a losing battle.  It was going to end, we all know that.  Stefan asked her about her feelings.  Asked point blank she surrendered, not wanting to lie; and admitted her feelings, then stepped up to explain herself.  Again, finding an opening, Stefan Pressed, “… who you want?”  She surrendered again, telling him about how her feelings for Damon have gotten stronger since her transition.  She was frustrated because it was she did not want him to know, but she did not want to lie either.  She was at a  loss for words.  Stefan continues, “I can’t do this anymore Elena.”  She snaps up, looks at him with shock that he is taking it this far.  “Not anymore.”  Realization sets in.  She gets it, she’s been arguing this with herself for almost 2 years.  Loving two men is not fair, and she gets it.  So yeah, her face changes to understanding, and she agrees, “I know.”  Takes a breath for support, acknowledging that it is over, that page has now turned.

That is how I see that episode.  I watched it again a couple times just now writing this.  What queues did I miss?  Cause to me this looks like, Stefan initiating a Break up with Elena.  It was a forgone conclusion to all of us, but that was the moment, and Stefan was the one that progressed that talk to it’s ultimate end.

What did I miss?

 Same page there Sister.  Honestly, during most of season 1, I was pretty committed to Stefan and Elena, he was good for her.  I was “shipping” (hate that term), Damon and Katherine.  I was actually upset when Kat was also Team Stefan.  Season 2 became wishy washy for me, I was good either way; End of Season 2, and all through Season 3, I was into Damon/Elena; he was now better for her.  I felt like Julie slapped me when Elena choose Stefan.

I felt the same way.  The thing is I never thought why is Damon trying to steal his brother’s girl.  It was such a smooth natural progression.  Their relationship grew each episode from season 1 episode 2 as did Damon and Stefan’s. Now we have this dispute as to which brother is best for Vamplena.  And I have also, seen posts about she should not be with either.  The thing is she should be with Damon.  They earned their relationship.  That relationship grew and it was cultivated.  It was not easy by any stretch of the imagination.

It’s true.  And if they come and dismantle the relationship after all of this, well, I just don’t know.  It wouldn’t be something that I would consider to be logical.  Even with the so called sire bond, it would be seen as disingenuous.  It would not be logical and even fiction should be logical.

 ”I’m not convinced, and will likely continue to Point to Stefan as
breaking up with her.  It gives her the moral freedom to engage with
Damon, rather then think that she dumped a guy to hook up with his
brother.’

Morality for the sake of convenience is immoral. I don’t and will not apply morality to love.Love does not follow the rules of convention nor does it confirm to limitations set by societal norms.It’s a force to be reckoned with and suppressing that love is nothing but betrayal to all parties involved.

 Elena did not set out to fall in love with Damon and neither did Damon.She stayed true to her loyalty and commitment to Stefan for a very long time and for her to continue to do so in the face of her love for Damon would be a negation of her very being. Of course she loves Stefan and he will always be a very important part of her life, but then again so will Matt.

 Safety in love is for the weak and the fearful and Damon and Elena are both strong and fearless that is why their love is so much more than anything she had with Stefan.

Yes, we will continue to agree on disagreeing. because I’m of the opinion that had Stefan asked her to try and work things out she would have refused.
In any case I will confess that I’m extremely biased when it comes to Damon and therefore, I have never been able to understand the idea of a deep connection between Stefan and Elena.For me their relationship  has always been childish and superficial in scope.

whereas with Damon I felt the attractionand the endless posibilities bewenn them since he said “You must be Elena…I’m Damon” I was sold and never looked back.

In the end it is nice debating with you all the nuances of the triangle as it were, and it makes for stimulating conversation.

Hahaha

 LOL.  It is a shame that it never played out.  You could say that the moment of truth came in the next episode where she told him to move on.  There is your tacit refusal there, and before she choose to be serious with Damon.  A that point I’ll agree with everything you are saying.  There is no rational way to dispute her position after “The old Elena is gone, she died when she went over that bridge.  Let her go.”  I think that was also the moment she gave up on the cure too, and accepted her new life as a Vampire.

 I think he probably knows that Elena is a vampire.He seems to be omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscient.Hybrids I never cared about so my apathy continues.I’m hoping for some more intimacy from Damon and Elena and I hope that they find  away to sedate Jeremy’s thirst for blood.His acceleration to killer is rapid courtesy of yet another royal fuck up from Stefan

Nice!! You know what i’m excited about??? Delena!!! Of course…..Beremy(They really haven’t had much screen time together this season) I’m looking forward to Forwood, and how awkward there whole reunite is going to be, once he sees her talking to Klaus..Delena..I’m very much looking forward to the hybrids trying to take out Klaus, how they plan to do it I HAVE NO IDEA…..delena…….i’m excited to know if Stefan does in fact find out about Delena, and who is gonna tell him….Caroline or Elena??? I’d rather Elena…..I’d also like to see some Christmas trees, maybe Caroline going out buying gifts or decorating or something….i definitely wanna see some mistletoe..(i know it’s cheesy, but hey i’m a female, deal with it, lol)..i’m also with you on seeing the events at the Lakehouse…i wanna see the akwardness between all four of them, cuz i feel it’ll be HILARIOUS! And I know Damon will have some funny pun to go along with it….Delena……I want to know if one of them, anyone will figure out what Professor Creepy is up to!! I wanna see Liz and Carol…i wanna see Elena and Jeremy training or talking…i want Professor Creepy TO GET THE HELL OUT OF THAT HOUSE and let Beremy and Delena have their moment…I wanna know what Klaus and Stefan are talking about….I wanna know what Matt will be up to….Idc about April…..and umm….did i mention Delena??? LOL…and to be more specific, not just the sex(but please bring on the sex, haha) but all their moments in between, i wanna see some snowball fights( i know, but i can dream) i wanna see romantic moments, and laughs(cuz we all know Damon makes her laugh) maybe hear some Christmas songs….i wanna see some teasing….ooo and i definitely want to see how Jeremy will take the news about them!! I feel like he won’t be too upset about it cuz he already looks up to Damon as an older brother, he also knows Elena has had feelings for Damon for a long time, and he does want his sister to be happy, so yes it’ll be awkward but it’ll be hella fun to watch!!! Did i mention Delena?? It’s officially 2:47am…bring on 8′o clock!! I am soo ready!!!

Nope, not a one.

 lol.. somebody here is going to go nuts through the winter hiatus.

I’m not sure Jeremy is in any kind of place to be having any kind of romantic anything with Bonnie, though I love that she is included in the secluded Lake House Hunter De-Tox intervention.  Alot of room for Damon and Elena to have small moments though, and more importantly for Bonnie to see them.  Help get Bonnie over the “Hate Damon” bump.

Candice pointed out something in an interview recently that kinda opened my eyes a bit to Caroline’s perspective.  I had not connected the dots because I’m long last the Sociopath Damon label, but for Caroline that is still what she has every right to see.  With the Sire Bond, Damon has all the power he needs to do to Elena what he did to Caroline in Season One.  We all know Damon actually loves Elena, but how is Caroline to know?  Shouldn’t she have the right to doubt it and be scared for her friend?  Damon took advantage of Caroline, Why wouldn’t she be scared and assume that Damon is also taking advantage of Elena?  It allows me some forgiveness for the character.  I mean i knew she has the right to hate Damon, but I did not connect the Dots to her seeing that history repeat itself involving her best friend.  I see Damon completely differently now, so I overlooked Caroline’s less bitching and actually endearing concern.

I could understand Caroline’s fear better if Damon hadn’t changed much but he has. She just refuses to see that he is much different with Elena and actually all of them than when he first arrived. She’s been there to see him work with them all for the same cause and save everyone’s butt. She can have all the fear she wants but she is being down right controlling which is a completely different story. She was pushing Stefan on Elena even before she turned and was worried about the sire crap. It’s just ironic given she’s becoming closer with Klaus who is even worse at controlling and killing people.

That’s a good point…didn’t think about that. BUT Damon has proven himself to Elena above and beyond,(not to mention everyone else) so with Caroline and her “paranoia” of repeating the past with Elena, in my eyes is ridiculous…..she knows it’s real, and she should just STOP!! Ugh, i’m sorry, but right now i just can’t take her.