@Chrissy:disqus  “Jeremy reiterates that Damon does not care about him, but cares
about him as a means to an end — as a hunters-mark-to-be-revealed.
Whether or not that’s true, it’s a logical assumption for Jeremy to
make. And when she repeatedly says she doesn’t want to hurt innocent
people or have her loved ones do horrible things, but then fails to make
decisions that prevent that, Elena comes off as a hypocrite.”
Interesting observation yet I don’t see in any concrete way how Elena could make any decisions to prevent that?
Elena isn’t the one calling the shots neither is Damon or anybody else really. It is Klaus. So, how can “weak new vampire Elena” prevent Klaus from making new vampires, compelling them and sending them after Jeremy, Matt and Damon?
How can Elena prevent Kol from wanting to kill Jeremy, compelling Damon…?
Now, she said she wants Jeremy to kill Kol. Desperate times call for drastic measures but whether her idea/plan is possible to carry out remains to be seen.
Let’s face it, growing Jeremy’s mark means killing vampires and if there are none around someone has to make them and that was Klaus. Stefan beat him to that one though.
Do you see any way that Elena could have prevented any of that?

Thank you for your thoughtful review. It’s been nearly a week now and it has taken me this long (with the help of reading lots of thought provoking posts on this site) to come to terms with the latest offerings from TVD. As the fan of the show as a whole, I have found a lot of great stuff to appreciate in the last episode, though I had a hard time to reach acceptance of some statements our characters made. But that’s not what I want to discuss now.
As a fan of Elena and Damon, this was a very hard episode to watch.
Your review has brought Elena’s hypocracy in focus, that is what I would like to examine further.
Is she hypocritical? Or is she simply reevaluating her views?
Her stand on the cure hasn’t changed. She is most certainly interested in the cure, but not at the cost of risking her brother’s life or humanity. Her feelings about Jeremy on the Hunter’s path haven’t changed either. She never wanted this life for him. But now that he has been forced on this journey by circumstances (he was a Potential, he was then pushed into his first kill by the desperate need for stopping Connor haunting Elena to kill herself, then Stefan forcing him to start his journey), and with the knowledge that Jeremy has a fairly good control on his Hunter extincts, she can do nothing more than to accept that Jeremy is set on his course to complete his Mark. So the next hurdle is how to go about it.
She was appalled by what happened at the bar. But what has been done, has been done. These new vampires were no longer innocent people, they were vampires with a simple mission of killing Matt. They had to die. So I don’t see that Elena leaving Damon with Jeremy to kill these compelled vampires was at all hypocritical. She has developed deep trust in Damon throughout season 3, she has trusted him to help with Jeremy before, so I thought her agreeing to Damon’s suggestion was completely in character, though certainly brought about quicker and smoother by the SB coming into play.

Was Elena hypocritical to bring up the little factoid that Rebekah tried to kill her, in fact did kill her, when questioning Stefan’s alliance with her? Again, don’t think so. It is a fact. It was however ridiculous for Stefan to retort with references of Damon trying to kill Jeremy, twice. I don’t want to go into the analysis of the actual truth of the statement, but to point out how irrelevant it was to the argument. Elena’s point was, how can you become friend/allies/whatever more with a person who has killed me, (your ex girlfriend, but would like to think, still your FRIEND)?
Stefan’s response is how can you love somebody who has tried to kill your brother? (Ok, can’t resist, first he tried to turn him into a vampire, second time he was instructing him to kill him to stop him from killing him.) The answer is of course very different to theses questions. Elena’s answer: I have forgiven him. Stefan’s answer: I don’t care.
Now the last issue. Elena’s plan to kill Kol. Is it hypocritical?
Or has she just changed her mind under the new given circumstances? First of all, I would like to maintain that I don’t see a shift in Elena’s principal moral views as a result of her becoming a vampire, or the SB. She wants to protect those she loves at all cost. Even sacrificing herself. But sacrificing others was not something she wouldn’t have done as a human, think of her deal with Ester.
So now suggesting killing Kol, she is suggesting Jeremy would kill somebody who has used and betrayed him, and sentenced him to death. She would offer her assistance. As a consequence, his hunter mark would be completed with one direct kill. Damon will be free of his compulsion. Jeremy will be safe. And as for the consequence of an unknown number of unknown vampires dying for the cause? For the safety of her brother and her lover? Knowing that as long as Kol is alive, they are both in danger of killing each other? I think that is a harsh decision, but not hypocritical. She considered Elijah as collateral damage as a human, even if she was very unhappy about it. So why not the complete unknown? Her new plan is a quick fix to all their problems. I see no hypocrisy.

This has been one of my favorite reviews of yours ever! Everything you said about Elena (and her hypocrisy this season) was spot on! And 100% agree with what you said about Stefan. Great read.

(Post as button pressed by accident, sorry.)

Damon has told Elena to trust him many times before, as Elena has used this expression many times with Damon too. It’s their thing. They have built their relationship and love on trust. So we need to give Damon a chance to learn that he needs to be careful with these words, as rather than the desired effect of natural reassurance and acceptance of a superior plan, the SB could bring these about. IMO, Damon has realised once the words were out, that the SB was invoked, but chose to leave it, because he was pretty sure Elena would have accepted his suggestion anyway (someone had to get Matt home and provide protection; Jeremy and Damon had to stay focused to kill the compelled vampires, what else was there to do?), this just cut the crap of a futile argument. Sure the incident has brought it into focus for both of them, what a fine line it is to cross from persuasion to invoking the SB, so they definitely need to work on that in the future, once there are no other, more pressing issues to deal with. And at the moment, the SB must be very low down the list of priorities.

 Nice answer. By weak I meant the simple fact that she and also other vampires who are “older and stronger” than her can’t escape doing Klaus’s bidding or fall as a victim to his violent retaliation, threats (to self and loved ones)…
As an illustration look what he did to force Jeremy to start killing the new vampires, he compelled them and sent them after Matt. Damon couldn’t do anything about it either.
Klaus wants what he wants and he usually gets his way (even with his own siblings by daggering them and stowing them away in boxes).

I understood what you have meant, and I agree with your ‘weak’ as contrasted to Klaus’s strength. When I used the words: “she’s not weak” I meant it as she is not just sitting idly unable to decide what to do next, afraid to act, scared of anyone. That is what some posters have been accusing her of, saying that the SB has reduced her to a quivering puppet. So I think we agree here completely. You have been moved to question and further examine the same part of the review as myself. You were focusing on defending Elena in her acceptance of the things she cannot change. I was pushing that a little further to say that her actions are a consequence of this and her unchanged super drive of stopping at nothing to save her loved ones. So I see no change in her attitude, behaviour, and no hypocrisy. I think we agree?

I agree with you darkdimension. Elena didn’t look hypocritical to me either. She is stating her position same as she did before: protect the ones she loves, even if it means to go and beg Klaus for help( that took a lot of strength).

She is same compassionate person , but in the circumstances she couldn’t reverse ( or prevent) what Klaus did turning a lot of innocent people into vampires and then setting them to kill Matt. How could she? She did not like the result, and Jeremy having to go in hunter mode was not her favorite plan, but in the end that was what Jeremy was training to do at the Lake House( all set in motion in prior episodes).

Whether Jeremy kills these vampires or others as initially planned, that was already established: needs to be done to grow the mark. She is agreeable to collateral damage. There is no growing hunter’ mark without killing vampires. there is no cure without the mark. This is the theme of this plot or arc. We all go with it, they all race for it.

When she plans on Jeremy killing Kol, this is when she actually is trying to make a plan that involves the loved ones to not do horrible things. Killing Kol who is actually an enemy that was set to kill her brother, is a brilliant plan and not hypocritical at all. It will accomplish the hunter’s purpose, and it will take out an enemy, not to mention that Damon’s compulsion will be off. Not sure if the plan will work or how she will do it, but she is planning something this serious. Not hypocritical. There is the whole line of vampires that will die. But everybody and Elena agreed vampires have to die for the mark, the cure.

As far as the  scene with Stefan , when Elena mentions that Bex tried to kill her, Stefan appeared hypocritical to me. When he was with Elena he agreed that Bex is dangerous and what not, but now he uses deflection to defend her mentioning Damon. He allies with Bex now( not that I mind, it  gives Stefan a good  way to take his mind from the pain), so when was he truthful? Elena did not ask Stefan about Bex as a jealous ex-girlfriend, although to many it seems so. She asked him out of concern that he is spiriling , in a self-destructive behavior.

I certainly agree with you on that. And I think Damon will not want this to change either. But I fear that if it comes to Elena wanting to put her life in danger again, or even her trademark attempt at self sacrifice, he will invoke the SB. His priority will always be Elena’s life and safety, and if Elena’s free will puts her life in jeopardy, he will not be ok with it. And I find it very difficult to blame him for that. Elena has just about as much regard for her own life as Damon for his. She is bound to push Damon to stop her sooner or later.
So I think we agree here. Apart from our perception of what would have happened had the SB not been invoked when Damon asked for Elena’s approval and trust. I think she would have come round to see that Damon’s plan was the right plan, it just would have taken a little longer.

Nobody can escape Klaus’s plans without facing certain dangers( his favorite – killing everybody they have ever loved). Elena couldn’t do anything to prevent or counteract Klaus’s actions. She is actually bold and strong enough to go to Klaus for help and beg him when she couldn’t convince him otherwise, just to save Jeremy and Damon from Kol. That is her acting, not only trying to help the ones she loves. She may be weak as a new vampire, but she is strong in her actions.
Klaus wants and takes what he wants. He seems in control, nobody else in MF has any control. Professor Shane knows and hides some things, but not in control. The other teams in the race, also not in control.

Thank you for elaborating, all valid points.
I think we need to add one more point though, to defend Elena’s acceptance that all this is happening for the Cure.
Initially, she was intrigued by the possibility of a cure that could give her humanity back, as she was clearly struggling with adjusting to being a vampire. Strangely enough, the news of the potential cure were delivered to her just when she had come out of her hallucinations with an epiphany of accepting her love for Damon and a shaping resolve to make a go of being a vampire, with Damon. Still, a cure for vampirism would be intriguing and tempting for a lot of vampires who were turned against their will. For Elena, there is also the added incentive of getting rid of the SB. But all this is almost irrelevant, in the light of Klaus wanting the cure and taking charge. Now they have no option than go along with it. So this why it is not hypocritical for Elena going along what needs to be done. What Klaus wants he gets. Jeremy is set. Damon and Stefan are determined for their own reasons. She herself wouldn’t mind the option of taking a cure, but that is not even coming into play any more.

 Agree. Elena was somewhat surprised by the existence of the cure in a very emotional moment of her vampirism, as she was ready to accept it, when she did accept her feelings for Damon. Intriguing and tempting, but she did realize it comes with a price, Jeremy’s humanity and was conflicted there. All in character for Elena. Since she knows of the SB, she has more reasons to want the cure.
Something just occurred to me, though. When Damon set her free at the Lake House, his words were something like: “i will teach Jeremy to kill vampires and I will go with him to kill vampires without you”. Is she set by the sire bond(!!) to be OK with Jeremy killing vampires? And if so , how can she make plan to kill Kol with Jeremy( when the command was “without her”). SB needs to go… Now I’m confusing myself even more.
Klaus is Klaus and he doesn’t forgive anybody in his path when he wants something. He wants the cure for whatever told and untold reasons and he won’t stop.

I don’t think SB works like that. She was told to go home, that’s it. She did. She was told this would make Damon happy, she knew damn right this was a lie. Damon told her he was staying on with Jeremy to train him. That was just information and conclusion after the success of Jeremy finding a way to override his Hunter instincts, in other words being able to hold onto his humanity. Damon didn’t say, “you need to accept that I’m staying here to help Jeremy kill vampires without you.” So that was not part of the command. Also Damon cannot influence how she feels about a command. She went home even though she hated to go. That’s why I am a little reluctant to accept that you can actually order someone to trust you. It’s a feeling. And feelings are not supposed to be influenced by SB. So I’m pretty sure that Elena’s trust in Damon’s plan here was not just a consequence of the SB, it was merely supported by it, if anything at all.

Exactly. Problem is, only Ric had a little bit of insight into Damon and Elena’s relationship. No one else has seen them operating together, they are totally unaware of the level of trust built between them. So out of ignorance, and with the confusion of the implications of the SB, all the gang are questioning everything they do. Is he using the SB? Is she responding to the SB? In fact, most of what’s happening, is just them operating exactly like they have been for a long time. Only now they are under scrutiny of confused (and in some case jealous) eyes and minds.

 Oh! Ric , yes he did know.
Ha Ha ! “Only now they are under scrutiny of confused( and in some case jealous) eyes and minds” So true… Way for Elena and Damon to start  or develop a relationship; between Klaus, the cure and the teams in the race, this “tiny” obstacle of the SB, and the scrutiny, who needs friends like Caroline…

 Elena’s strenght, her humanity seems lost. Usually she felt bad about those plans, but not now. The plan to kill thousends of vampires without remorse feels OOC especially since Elena has no idea what this might do to Jeremy who she tries to protect.
“Jeremy has a fairly good control on his Hunter extinct”

Noooooo, Jeremy’s hunter’s instincts are on overdrive since he killed during the night, he has a stake in his hands without being aware of it. Is the rist of turing him into a killing mashine by making him kill Kol and so maybe thousends of vampires not the worst plan ever? The situation has often been helpless, but Elena usually tried to find an alternative way, but not this time. They could for example try to desiccate Klaus again by using the ring on for example Liz or try to use Tyler’s plan and put Klaus inother body, maybe Elena’s and him alive. There are options.

To Damon – The truth is that Damon could have said no and not lead Jeremy and Matt into a trap endangering Matt’s live. Damon could have compelled Matt to leave, making alternative plans with Jeremy.
Damon siredtalked Elena to come and to trust him with Jeremy. She had no say in this. Usually the strenght in the DE relationship has been the fighting about different opinions, but this is gone. Damon might not want to force her into his way, but this is what he is doing atm. He went to New Orleans intending to kill 12 innocent people to break the SB without even asking Elena if she would be okay with it. He even asked Stefan not to tell Elena and like Damon said himself he would have done it in a heartbeat if he could have broken the SB this way. He is not telling Elena about his plan to let Tyler die at the hands of Klaus or Stefan in 4×09, because  Damon wants the SB to be broken at all coasts. And this is something Elena told him this episode she doesn’t want but he is not respecing her wishes. He is withholding things from her, abusing the SB, maybe not aways on purpose and is so manipulating her. I have doubts Damon wants to find a way out of this. All what he is doing atm is trying desperalty a way to break the SB.

Elena is hypocritical because she is pointing at Rebekah while the people she cares and loves are not any better. Damon and Stefan killed countless people or turned them. So why has Elena the nerve to point at Rebekah?

Elena  was
imo hypocritical because she started the whole fight with Rebekah. Elena daggered her while Rebekah was trying to help them and she didn’t even undagger her after the eveing with Mikeal went down. Elena had her hands in the pland to kill Rebekah and her family. Finally Rebekah killed Elena to save herself and her family, but this is what Elena is doing herself at the moment by wanting Kol dead and so thousends of vampires who are innocent in all of this would die with Kol.
Elena might be concernd about Stefan, but this is not what she is saying asking. She is not asking him how he is or telling him that she is concernd. She is making it about herself by judging him for spending time with Rebekah. Pointing out what Rebekah did to her without even thinking what she did to Rebekah.

Actually Stefan’s is not saying” how can you
love somebody who killed your brother”. Stefan is poining out that nobody is perfect by mentioning Damon and his killing of Jeremy. While sure the second time wasn’t Damon’s fault but the first was only for his own selfish reasons. And with mentioing of “nobody” Stefan is not only thinking about Damon, surely also about himself since he pointed out to Caroline he can’t see what makes them better as Klaus. They all do horrible things to achieve their goals.

Stefan is hurt, of course he cares otherwise he wouldn’t have been hurt the episode before so much, otherwise he wouldn’t have saved Jeremy and Damon from each other, otherwise he wouldn’t have pointed out the problematic for Elena seeing Damon being compelled and Elena being sired. He has a human reaction. He is not breaking necks, compelling himself girlfriends as being his bloodbag or lashing out on innocent other people. He is kind of a little mean to Elena and he might enjoy it a little too much and I really enjoy this Stefan. It is super fun to watch that snarky Stefan shows her her hypocrisy and gives her a hint that he needs a pause from her.

I really like in which ways Stefan is dealing with his feelings. It would make no sense if he would be just nice and understanding. He still has not found balance and I really like his sassiness. He might not be as nice and understanding as before, but this is the greatest thing about it. The is a much needed edge for his character.

****Great review****. This episode had a great amount of devilish charme for sure.
Stefan was just the best, funniest thing ever.  I hope he stays a bit like that. I love how he channels his feelings. Rebekah and Stefan are hot together. I hope to see more of them. They make a interesting team. It is fascinating how mean Rebekah can be, but I have never the problem of not liking her. She is a greatly balanced character who has been used, hurt  and daggered way too often. She deserves some form of happiness imo. 

It is really hard to like Elena when she feels so hypocrite when she is judging several vampires, but loving vampires who are not better and planing a vampire genocide only for her brother and Damon while she has no idea what this will do to Jeremy who is already on overdrive.

I had a really foogy moment when suddenly Jeremy was bleeding so much. At first he had one little cut in his hand and then suddenly half of his arm was bloody and it looked like he would soon faint, all white in his face. Was there a scene missing with Damon where he got really hurt badly?

The only thing I didn’t like was the feeling of having seen some scenes before. The Elena tries to tell Damon to fight the compulsion felt recycled from The Reckoning 3×05 when Elena basically tellls Stefan the same. And the Elena Stefan scene reminded me of the Damon Elena scene after Damon slept with Rebekah. Elena basically asks the same questions and tells the same. “Rebekah tried to kill me. Are you lashing out on me?” I liked Damon’s answer back then when he told her that for once something had nothing to do with her.

Kol. Hmmm I like that one character is skeptical, but his reasons felt a bit shallow.  But I see his point. Why the characters in MF are thinking that Silas will do and bring back who they want to brought back? Silas feels like the wild card where we have no idea what he will do. I hope Kol survives somehow.